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	<title>Comments for Awenydd</title>
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	<description>From the mixed-up files of Christopher Kou</description>
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		<title>Comment on Who is I in Romans 7? by Awenydd &#187; Prosopopoeia (speech in character) in Romans 7?</title>
		<link>http://chriskou.com/2011/11/09/who-is-i-in-romans-7/comment-page-1/#comment-6436</link>
		<dc:creator>Awenydd &#187; Prosopopoeia (speech in character) in Romans 7?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chriskou.com/?p=2203#comment-6436</guid>
		<description>[...] For a fuller discussion see my more developed post on Romans 7. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For a fuller discussion see my more developed post on Romans 7. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Who is I in Romans 7? by Jonathan Sedlak</title>
		<link>http://chriskou.com/2011/11/09/who-is-i-in-romans-7/comment-page-1/#comment-6273</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Sedlak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chriskou.com/?p=2203#comment-6273</guid>
		<description>Great article. It helps a bit that I already familiarized myself with a few competing arguments in the Romans 7 &quot;I&quot; debate before reading this article, but I can definitely see this position as being the most natural reading. In the past, there have been far too many over-reactions to the position you are presenting, and I hope this begins a healthy shift back onto the track of Paul&#039;s original intentions when writing &#039;Romans&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. It helps a bit that I already familiarized myself with a few competing arguments in the Romans 7 &#8220;I&#8221; debate before reading this article, but I can definitely see this position as being the most natural reading. In the past, there have been far too many over-reactions to the position you are presenting, and I hope this begins a healthy shift back onto the track of Paul&#8217;s original intentions when writing &#8216;Romans&#8217;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Who is I in Romans 7? by Peter</title>
		<link>http://chriskou.com/2011/11/09/who-is-i-in-romans-7/comment-page-1/#comment-6271</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chriskou.com/?p=2203#comment-6271</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris!

1) If memory serves, with perhaps quibbles about the Jew/Gentile composition in the church at Rome, your post argues similarly to Doug Moo&#039;s Romans lengthy commentary, here on chapter 7. 

For example, Moo argues that while allowing for a certain imprecision about which is husband and which wife, the law&#039;s widow in 7:3 is the character that is free to marry Christ in v. 4, though before the second marriage is unregenerate (if I represent Moo accurately).

2) Paul uses a &quot;paradigmatic &#039;I&#039;&quot; also at the end of Galatians 2. Here I use H. D. Betz&#039;s (translated) terminology &quot;paradigmatic &#039;I&#039;&quot; in his commentary on Galatians.

3) While granting that Paul&#039;s use of &quot;I&quot; in Romans 7 transcends autobiographical use at times, it may be partly autobiographical because Paul shared both a Jewish heritage (stretching back even before Sinai) and also a conversion to Jesus Christ.

4) How can the whole world (Jew and Gentile) be held accountable to God (Rom. 3:19) on the basis of what the law says to those &quot;under law&quot; (here lit. &quot;in the law&quot; v. 18), meaning Jews? Well here &quot;law&quot; is especially the Psalms cited repeatedly in 3:11-18 with maybe Isaiah and Jeremiah thrown in. 

Is Paul thus saying the Scriptures indict all humanity in sin? The examples in vv. 11-18 suggest they do, but the demand aspect of Mosaic law would seem in view in the phrases &quot;in the law,&quot; &quot;works of the law,&quot; and &quot;through the law comes the knowledge of sin&quot; in vv. 19 and 20, resp. Indictment of Gentiles would seem to follow in part at least by means of an a fortiori argument whereby Gentiles enter into at least some of the obligations of the Mosaic law (cf. Isaiah 24:5).

Gentiles are indicted because of demands placed on Jews. &quot;For by the works of the law shall no flesh [Jew or Gentile] be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin&quot; (v. 20).

5) The &quot;brothers&quot; in the church at Rome (7:1, 4) knew the law (7:1) yet were probably largely from &quot;among the rest of the Gentiles&quot; (1:13). Through faith in Jesus as wild olive shoots (ch. 11), they had entered spiritually into the family of Abraham and shared with Paul something of the experiences of the &quot;I&quot; of Romans 7. 

Gentile Christians in Rome also &quot;died to the law through the body of Christ&quot; (7:4), having previous to conversion to Jesus had their sinful passions aroused by the law and been captive to the law (vv. 5,6). Or so to all appearances Paul argues despite also arguing for a fundamental distinction between Jew and Gentile, for example regarding relationship to the law of Moses (ch. 2).

6) The &quot;I&quot; of Romans 7 finds &quot;delight in the law of God&quot; (v. 22), serves the law of God with &quot;his&quot; mind (contrary to his flesh, v. 24), agrees with the law that it is good (v. 16), desires to do what is right (v. 18), yet is split by doing what is wrong and not desired.

Is this &quot;I&quot; unregenerate? Moo thinks so. Others argue for example that this is the tussle of a regenerate person before Christ or that it is the experience of the Christian in this world or that Paul is not entirely precise in defining who the &quot;I&quot; is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris!</p>
<p>1) If memory serves, with perhaps quibbles about the Jew/Gentile composition in the church at Rome, your post argues similarly to Doug Moo&#8217;s Romans lengthy commentary, here on chapter 7. </p>
<p>For example, Moo argues that while allowing for a certain imprecision about which is husband and which wife, the law&#8217;s widow in 7:3 is the character that is free to marry Christ in v. 4, though before the second marriage is unregenerate (if I represent Moo accurately).</p>
<p>2) Paul uses a &#8220;paradigmatic &#8216;I&#8217;&#8221; also at the end of Galatians 2. Here I use H. D. Betz&#8217;s (translated) terminology &#8220;paradigmatic &#8216;I&#8217;&#8221; in his commentary on Galatians.</p>
<p>3) While granting that Paul&#8217;s use of &#8220;I&#8221; in Romans 7 transcends autobiographical use at times, it may be partly autobiographical because Paul shared both a Jewish heritage (stretching back even before Sinai) and also a conversion to Jesus Christ.</p>
<p>4) How can the whole world (Jew and Gentile) be held accountable to God (Rom. 3:19) on the basis of what the law says to those &#8220;under law&#8221; (here lit. &#8220;in the law&#8221; v. 18), meaning Jews? Well here &#8220;law&#8221; is especially the Psalms cited repeatedly in 3:11-18 with maybe Isaiah and Jeremiah thrown in. </p>
<p>Is Paul thus saying the Scriptures indict all humanity in sin? The examples in vv. 11-18 suggest they do, but the demand aspect of Mosaic law would seem in view in the phrases &#8220;in the law,&#8221; &#8220;works of the law,&#8221; and &#8220;through the law comes the knowledge of sin&#8221; in vv. 19 and 20, resp. Indictment of Gentiles would seem to follow in part at least by means of an a fortiori argument whereby Gentiles enter into at least some of the obligations of the Mosaic law (cf. Isaiah 24:5).</p>
<p>Gentiles are indicted because of demands placed on Jews. &#8220;For by the works of the law shall no flesh [Jew or Gentile] be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin&#8221; (v. 20).</p>
<p>5) The &#8220;brothers&#8221; in the church at Rome (7:1, 4) knew the law (7:1) yet were probably largely from &#8220;among the rest of the Gentiles&#8221; (1:13). Through faith in Jesus as wild olive shoots (ch. 11), they had entered spiritually into the family of Abraham and shared with Paul something of the experiences of the &#8220;I&#8221; of Romans 7. </p>
<p>Gentile Christians in Rome also &#8220;died to the law through the body of Christ&#8221; (7:4), having previous to conversion to Jesus had their sinful passions aroused by the law and been captive to the law (vv. 5,6). Or so to all appearances Paul argues despite also arguing for a fundamental distinction between Jew and Gentile, for example regarding relationship to the law of Moses (ch. 2).</p>
<p>6) The &#8220;I&#8221; of Romans 7 finds &#8220;delight in the law of God&#8221; (v. 22), serves the law of God with &#8220;his&#8221; mind (contrary to his flesh, v. 24), agrees with the law that it is good (v. 16), desires to do what is right (v. 18), yet is split by doing what is wrong and not desired.</p>
<p>Is this &#8220;I&#8221; unregenerate? Moo thinks so. Others argue for example that this is the tussle of a regenerate person before Christ or that it is the experience of the Christian in this world or that Paul is not entirely precise in defining who the &#8220;I&#8221; is.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Did Paul Teach the Imputation of Christ&#8217;s Righteousness? by Awenydd &#187; Who is I in Romans 7?</title>
		<link>http://chriskou.com/2010/02/11/did-paul-teach-imputation-of-christs-righteousness/comment-page-2/#comment-6268</link>
		<dc:creator>Awenydd &#187; Who is I in Romans 7?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chriskou.com/?p=1389#comment-6268</guid>
		<description>[...] is using the word &#8220;imputation&#8221; in a very different way from how we usually think of it (not that this invalidates the doctrine of imputation).  With this general context in mind, then we come to Romans 7:7-10. For I would not have known [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is using the word &#8220;imputation&#8221; in a very different way from how we usually think of it (not that this invalidates the doctrine of imputation).  With this general context in mind, then we come to Romans 7:7-10. For I would not have known [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Perishing Apart from the Law by Awenydd &#187; Who is I in Romans 7?</title>
		<link>http://chriskou.com/2010/01/21/perishing-apart-from-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-6267</link>
		<dc:creator>Awenydd &#187; Who is I in Romans 7?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chriskou.com/?p=1285#comment-6267</guid>
		<description>[...] Law. He generally speaks of Jews as being &#8220;under the law&#8221; and Gentiles as being &#8220;apart from the law.&#8221; Think Romans 2:12-14 when he is arguing that both Jew and Gentile stand equally condemned [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Law. He generally speaks of Jews as being &#8220;under the law&#8221; and Gentiles as being &#8220;apart from the law.&#8221; Think Romans 2:12-14 when he is arguing that both Jew and Gentile stand equally condemned [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Prosopopoeia (speech in character) in Romans 7? by Awenydd &#187; Who is I in Romans 7?</title>
		<link>http://chriskou.com/2008/03/19/prosopopoiia-speech-in-character-in-romans-7/comment-page-1/#comment-6266</link>
		<dc:creator>Awenydd &#187; Who is I in Romans 7?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chriskou.com/2008/03/19/prosopopoiia-speech-in-character-in-romans-7/#comment-6266</guid>
		<description>[...] will be seeking to demonstrate here that Paul&#8217;s use of the first person is a prosopopoeia (speech in character) from the perspective of an preregenerate person, and specifically a Gentile [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will be seeking to demonstrate here that Paul&#8217;s use of the first person is a prosopopoeia (speech in character) from the perspective of an preregenerate person, and specifically a Gentile [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Love, Jealousy, and Envy by Christopher Kou</title>
		<link>http://chriskou.com/2009/02/03/love-jealousy-and-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-6070</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Kou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 03:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chriskou.com/2009/02/03/love-jealousy-and-envy/#comment-6070</guid>
		<description>Nuts.  I was moderating my spam, and noticed just as I clicked &quot;empty spam,&quot; that one of the comments looked legit (it appeared to be about St. Valentine&#039;s Day).  Well, it&#039;s gone now.  To whomever posted here, sorry about that.  If you like, please try again.  I&#039;ll be more careful in reading through the filtered comments next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nuts.  I was moderating my spam, and noticed just as I clicked &#8220;empty spam,&#8221; that one of the comments looked legit (it appeared to be about St. Valentine&#8217;s Day).  Well, it&#8217;s gone now.  To whomever posted here, sorry about that.  If you like, please try again.  I&#8217;ll be more careful in reading through the filtered comments next time.</p>
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